One of the negatives about spoons is the lack of flotation. Even though it works in your favor as far as duckdiving and performance, it does work against you in paddling. Every session is a real workout for the legs and lungs.

When you're in your 20's and 30's, who cares? Get to your 40's and 50's, when stamina begins to decrease, and you care.

I'm against adding flotation to the board but I've often wondered how it would be to put a little floation on the rider. It would be nice to be able to rest between sets and get your head a little farther out of the water, especially on more demanding days, and especially in FL, where the warm water means less rubber, i.e., no help floating from your wetsuit. So I finally checked out wakeboarding vests and found this



On sale, 40% off, so $25. It's tough, relatively light, fits snug, and doesn't inhibit the arms. The flotation is enough to take some of the pressure off my legs and get my head a little farther out when paddling and allows me to just bob and rest between sets. You can feel the resistance as you duckdive, but with the fins (udt's) you just drive it down.

Call me a wimp, call it viagraflex, but I'm looking forward to the next session more than ever.

manowar,

Bouyancy in spoons can be problematic, especially in colder waters. I was curious... already had plenty of flotation from my wetsuit (it was difficult enough to penetrate underwater in larger waves), so I experimented with a spoon that had a slightly inflatable deck (an elliptical shape, located forward/ mid half), regulated by an easy access, quick release purge valve. It was a lot of fun to play with inflation levels. I found only a few lungfulls of air were necessary to provide surprising changes. As expected, the deck bladder was very effective in assisting paddling, etc. Most often the spoon was deflated by the time I caught a wave. There were no adverse effects in terms of performance.

The solution was not "all or nothing"... but variable flotation.

Solo,
Why am I not surprised. A deck bladder. When it comes to thinking outside the box, you are the king.

i've asked around before about mats being more tiring than spoons, and the consensus from peeps that've done both say spoons are more wearing. ( i've since learned not to try to keep up with a board paddling, and with udt fins i've learned a slow rolling kick - consequently i'm getting less worked matting)

but the question is this: what is it that is so tiring about the flexspoons - and now after reading this i'll assume that once you get out to the lineup on a flexspoon, you don't just relax and float like a board or a mat. So you don't get any 'catchup/recharge' time. Is that it in the main?

I think that's main dif for fatique factor. Ona mat you are up out of the water and can relax more. On spoon, you are basically swimming and once out in the line-up your barely high enough in the water to breath without work. Course that depends on fat/bone/muscle ratio and rubber thick thin or none.

dale, that deck bladder - might it also serve the purpose of a neoprene mat to soften the impact of the knees and comfort, adn no real added weight? i wouldn't think a flat bladder like that would not affect the spoon's flex and perf. (not too much psi, just enough for bouyancy and cushion)

Jason,

My deck bladders were bonded to the forward half of spoons, elliptical in shape, not large, no more than about 12" to 16" wide x 24" to 30" long, at full inflation only around 2" thick at center. Initial bladder capacity was based on my lung capacity... if I remember correctly, I could inflate a 3" to 4" x 20" to 22" tube with a single exhalation. Even one lungful of air is very buoyant.

Bladders were positioned to avoid contact with knees, strictly for variable buoyancy. They were not tough enough, and had no cushioning ability, not designed to accept a high enough internal pressure to support my weight and the pressure points from knees.

Besides, I wanted to feel as much as I could through the deck panel... stay as close to the water as possible. There was no discernable effect on flex as my spoons had very little (more torque than bend) in the forward half. I think bladder weight was only about 2 or 3 ounces, but the quick release purge valve was too heavy... 7 or 8 ounces.

Fun to play with!

and I always want as little flotation as possible! About as much as a plywood Paipo board.

Sitting in the lineup is actually floating(if your lungs are full) next to your spoon. No sitting on it to relax. Floating in salt water with a wetsuit on is not physically demanding - actually rather relaxing.

Perspective - my perspective is "out there" I realize. Not ever having surfed a buoyant board(more buoyant than a spoon) gives me a unique perspective. I just don't know any better. Or is everyone else "out there"????? Works for me.

I'm still wondering how I will deal with the buoyancy of a mat. That will be a challange. My guess is that the mat for me will be more physically challanging than a spoon. The challange being the buoyancy. Swimming with a spoon is easy.

The last 2 times I surfed the size and buoyancy of the "Project Velo" board really bothered me. Made everything more difficult. I felt the "push" from riding inappropriate waves for Velo(on 3-5' point break waves). MeloVelo needed.

If you want to ride a spoon better have the waves for it.

On another note I'm changing servers this weekend so there may be a little down time for flexspoon.com today.

Hi Guys
The lack of bouancy in spoons seems to be an age old problem if you look at voyager GG use's a mat with the spoon on a number of occasions due I am sure to using a weighty camera
As the dreaded age and fitness over shadow this becomes more of an issue.
The idea of lowering the weight of the spoon and upping the bounancy seems to be a core issue.
If by using less number of laminations of glass / epoxy or polyester etc
and using a central armature of thin ply ie 2 - 3 mm or some other material of choice something like balsa ? then laminations for the magic flex for the base / bottom of the board, then by using a bladder instead of carving foam coverd in yet more layers of glass and epoxy adding more weight, the bouancy and change in flex to the rails would be by varying the amount of air in the bladder has got to be a more of an Out of the Box approach.
If we look back to the first surfboards weighing in at 100+ lbs and the progressive equivilents now at around [ epoxy/ polysterene wood veneer ] 12 - 14 lbs for similar size and how they work, weight seems to be the whole answer towards performance surfing.
Some years ago in the UK a guy came up with a inflatable windsurfer roll it up stick in the trunk away you go !
It never really caught on due to being to much Out of the Box, Now we have number of inflatable items RIB's, Canoe's, Dolls :oops: etc All flex related !
How about that for bizzare ramblings of a Mad English Man
Just some thought's from accross the Ocean
If we lower the weight and up thye bounacy perhaps we can move round in the pack and surf a differant number of breaks other than just points etc.
Stu. :D

sorry not sure how that happened ! :oops:

Stu, don't worry, you upped your post total significantly.

Anyway, are you going to actually make this contraption with the inflatable rails, or was it the rum speaking?

I know i've seen it mentioned before here or on another forum - spoon with inflateable rails. seeing as out dale's mat's rails do so well - i'd think this the way to go. (yea -- coming from a guy who's never held a flexspoon, much less ridden one, right) But then the most experienced flexspoon riders tell you they don't want buoyancy. i'm sure the foam/fiber rails up in the nose help stiffen the board up front tho - that being desirable i'd think.

Pass another keg Jim Lad
and we will try and get this show on the road !

Stu - fixed.

Barca-spoons - is this what you are talking about. And a smoking vest to wear with all the accessories? Pipe, sunscreen, drinks and iPod
What do you want to do? Lounge around or surf?
Sorry, couldn't resist.



My buddy Tim wants some buoyancy while I want none. The only other guys I have talked to that like as little buoyancy as I do are PG and GG(Paul Gross and George Greenough)

buoyancy - imagine how restricted a dolphin would feel if you strapped on a buoyancy pack. That's what buoyancy in a spoon does to me - restricts what I can do. For me diving under waves/swimming under water is a big part of it. It's a way to surf alone, sit inside where no one else can.

Note- Looks like I'll move the site tonight. Seems like it is getting slower and slower. Good time to move.

The last thing anyone would want to do is sit inside or swim underwater at some of the rock reefs I surfed... too shallow unless the waves were overhead. Sometimes the wave pulled the water in the trough down to less than knee deep. Kelp was a frequent problem at lower tides, too. In such situations, staying close to the surface could save a person a lot of pain. Coral reef breaks can be even more dangerous.

One time I dropped into a head high wave, got hit by the lip and was slammed right through the deck of my spoon into the bottom. Two piece spoon and one injured knee.